Interview with Dr Basil Leodoro

Giacomo Bianchino

15/11/2021

The Militant Monthly’s Giacomo Bianchino sat down with Dr Basil Leodoro, president of the Vanuatu Association of Public Sector Employees (VAPSE), to talk about the kinds of exploitation and vulnerability experienced by Ni-Vanuatu workers in Australia, and how unions are cooperating across borders to combat this.

Dr Leodoro’s replies have only been minimally edited to remove repetition.

GB: Thanks for sitting down with me Basil. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about your role in union organizing in Vanuatu?

BL: I am the president of VAPSE. So that's the public sector union; whereas Vanuatu National Workers Union is the private sector union. So a lot of our workers in Seasonal Worker Programme and Pacific Labour Scheme workers go become members of the VNWU. However, we're in a transition phase at the moment. So what we've done is set up Vanuatu National Workers Union in Port Vila; and then we’ve set up in Luganville, which is the second largest town in Vanuatu. And in that regard, we've sort of tried to organise ourselves so that workers travelling anywhere on seasonal programmes as well as, you know, any other labour issues. And so that has come about that that transition, and that sort of strategy has come about because of what we've experienced with the seasonal workers.

GB: In terms of seasonal work, what are the major complaints on the farms? What do migrant workers worry about in the Australian context?

BL: Well, it's not just the Australian context, I think also in the New Zealand context. So, one theme that keeps recurring is that close monitoring of union activities. That happens even to the point where, you know, the, the employer will tell the workers that “I don't want to see any other white person in your compound.” And but that's because of that's because they understand that any white person that goes into that compound is probably a union organiser, so that threat has come about and they keep a very close watch. So that's what the other one is. You may already be aware of the flexibility of the contract arrangements- where they sign a different contract in Vanuatu, and then they travel away from their support system and arrive in Australia or New Zealand and the contract is re-signed at different amounts and different rates. So that's been a big issue that we've seen. Also, we've had a few motor vehicle crashes, so health and well-being has become an issue for our workers. We've had a few medical motor vehicle crashes with injury and deaths with the seasonal scheme, and also there's some reports of, you know, being exposed to chemicals that have been sprayed, and then the workers are going in quite close immediately after, and came to us and reported, you know, irritation of the eyes or conjunctivitis. So the union has had to address some of those complaints quite urgently.

GB: How do you handle these problems across national lines?

BL: The relationship with the United Workers Union (UWU) is something that, you know, is one of our lifelines to communicate with our with our workers who are overseas. They've done great work with us. And we hope to strengthen that partnership, because I think that's the only way. Another challenge is the education level of the of the workers’ understanding of English. So one of the things that we do to address that is working together with Australia, New Zealand unions to do Bislama translation*. So any documents, any issues that come up, we connect by teleconference, and our organisers, talk directly to the union members, and explain things in Bislama. The other challenge that we’ve got was accessing superannuation, and being able to get, you know, to get access to that. And that's been a big difficulty for some of the workers because not only maybe they might not understand it that well, but then to be able to access it is very difficult because of the understanding and the language and the forms that have to be filled and all of those things, so with our workers, that that relationship with UWU has been crucial to help us to get over that bump.

"We would love for the Department of Labour to enable unions to work together with them to try and have some form of civic education, some form of organising before the workers depart... because once they depart, from a work standpoint, they're not connected, the umbilical cord is cut. We see that's where a lot of their issues come up"

GB: All of these issues relate to the institutional process by which workers come over to Australia. Say a Ni-Vanuatu wants to come here to work on the fruit farms or in the packing industry, what processes do they have to go through?

BL: It's quite an expensive process for workers that's often undocumented. But we know that workers from the outer islands who live outside of Port Vila and Luganville will have to make arrangements with their family for, you know, for income while they're away. And then they will travel to port Villa or Luganville and pay for their own living costs in those urban centres. And, of course, you know, it's a lot more expensive to live in those urban centres. And some of them - because they have to come in prepared, make up their passports, fill in the forms - they actually have to wait around quite a bit. So that cuts into the, you know, savings as well. And then on top of that, after travelling to Port Vila and Luganville, if there is a delay, most of them will find will have to travel back to their islands to wait for the answers to come back. And so that's another hidden cost that I'm sure many don't talk about. The cost for the pre-departure medical examination is also, for a subsistence farmer, quite high. And then eventually, once they align with a contractor or a local agent, the costs continue. When the Department of Labour announced that they were taking over speaking to seasonal workers before they leave, we think that the workers deserve to be organised in our country first. So we often we've had fights with getting access to the workers. Sometimes we have to come to the airport security and try and get a pass just to be able to hand them the last remnants of leaflets and pamphlets so that they know  what they're getting themselves into. We would love for the Department of Labour to enable unions to work together with them to try and have some form of civic education, some form of organising before the workers depart. And also that they know that there's a union office or a union organiser that is, you know, connected to the office back home - because once they depart, from a work standpoint, they're not connected, the umbilical cord is cut. We see that's where a lot of their issues come up - when they're out there on their own. And they're vulnerable, without, you know, regular follow-ups and regular welfare checks. A lot of these guys are subsistence farmers, so their exposure to Australia-New Zealand culture and ways of living is minimal. And I think a little bit of that, a little bit of that colonial attitude is still there where whatever the white man says, is probably right. We need to reserve ourselves and be quiet and be respectful. I think that's still there. That's something that galvanises us when we're doing our work here in Vanuatu to try and bring their level of understanding about labour and about employment and conditions and their rights up a little bit before they depart the country.

GB: Without large union involvement, the only recourse that people have for rectifying a bad work situation is through the Fair Work Ombudsman, which is notoriously slow and difficult to use - it very rarely actually materialises into any wages being recovered or anything like that. What's your experience been of people confronting issues they have at the labour level back in Australia?

BL: Well, they do two things: they fight or they flight. I think that's translated into what we're seeing with workers absconding from their place of work. There's been quite a few reports of workers not turning up to work - workers absconding. I think that's, that's their way of protesting the conditions that they have and you know, in this COVID climate, their way of saying they miss home, and they'd rather not do anything than work even more. We will also see, anecdotally, the increase in alcohol intake in the normally quite disciplined workers. And then that has led, as I said earlier, to some of those motor vehicle crashes and loss of life. We've seen that and, and just the general, I would call it, an ill-feeling. I mean, they don't say outright when they're in Australia, New Zealand, and then when they arrive back home, oh my gosh, we can just spend a whole day with them, just listening to them vent about the challenges they face. So it's worrying that they don't have the option or the ability to be able to do that in their place of work. We haven't heard reports of, you know, physical confrontation with the agents and all that. And I think part of that is also because the workers want to keep their reputation, you know, they want to have a good reputation, they want to be able to come back. And when we've been very happy with those who have been going back continuously and get the chance to go back, I think that shows that they are committed to do the work and they are committed to learn and understand the experience.

GB: The official narrative around this whole programme is that the migrant labour schemes are not just a means of furnishing the Australian labour force, but are also a development programme for Vanuatu. But are the wages that people receive sufficient to provide any “entrepreneurial capital” for community development once they have been eroded by costs and the process of getting money back to Vanuatu?

BL: I would say I don't know. And that's the truth, because we're not collecting that data in any shape or form. One of the things that the government has not done, and this might be off field a little bit, but one of the things that we haven't done is to actually put some criteria to returning to Australia and New Zealand. In a sense that the whole purpose of the scheme in the first place is to be able to provide labour for Australia but then, in Vanuatu, to be able to show that you utilise what you know, the experience and, and the income that you get to show it now - we don't have any criteria for those who are returning or those who want to go back to show that they've contributed back into the communities. For example, before you go back for your second job, show us evidence that you have planted 100 taro, show us evidence that you have planted 100 coconuts. I think that's one of the things that we wanted to push for. One issue that we have, and like what you said about the development and entrepreneurship, one issue that we're seeing at the moment is the huge growth of donor-funded entrepreneurship programmes that are set up, run and delivered by experts in Vanuatu. So we have a big worry that while development and entrepreneurship partnership is part of the agreement, or that that concept, even when we're supporting entrepreneurship, back home, in Vanuatu, it's not local entrepreneurship. Australian entrepreneurship programmes that are funded by DFAT and MFAT**, and you know, you'll see them promoting the entrepreneurship programmes on social media in Vanuatu. How is that going to help the new Vanuatu if they are still dependent on the expert to explain to them how to do business in Vanuatu? We would like to see local entrepreneurs being supported to assist the workers coming home. The concept of entrepreneurship doesn't exist in our cultural atmosphere. It doesn't exist because of that community culture. So you know, if you're teaching them about leadership and goal-setting and, you know, focusing on yourself, that doesn't apply in the reality, and that translates into them never actually producing something that is worth their while. We want to see Ni-Vanuatu training up Ni-Vanuatu in that entrepreneurship space, rather than the other way around.

GB: I've spoken to people who have reported workers getting blacklisted from returning to Australia when they go back to Vanuatu because of misbehaviour. How does take place, and is it ever used to punish people for trying to organise their workplace?

BL: Yes - that's 100 per cent yes on blacklisting being used to prevent organising. We’ve had countless reports of that. There are a few union leaders who have managed to overcome that. But, you know, a lot of it is targeted at the first-timers so they so they threaten them with blacklisting, just because they don't want them to organise. And I can confirm that we see that in the workers that have come back and reported it to us. And we've tried to liaise with the UWU to try and tackle that. The blacklisting that we're seeing is not so much between government and government. But what we're seeing is the blacklisting at the agent level, at the employer level - that's often where it happens. And I'm sure it doesn't get raised at the higher levels or even, if it does, you know, it's often not publicised how they're handling it. So I wouldn't comment on at the government level, but certainly at the employer and employee level, we've had many, many cases of blacklisting to try and stop them from organising. And we've tried to address that through the union channels. Well, I think it's going to continue. I don't see an end to this until we try and fill in those specific gaps. For example, if the Vanuatu government pushed for the workers to be organised before they depart as part of the prerequisite for departure - if they got a pre-departure briefing - then we would be happy that we have a part and also offer them solutions. But trade unions are not being asked to provide a briefing. And I think that's a crucial misstep that's going to affect us in the long run.

GB: Since new trade agreements were signed with Great Britain after Brexit, there has been a reshuffling of agricultural labour arrangements. The new rules mean British visa holders no longer have to do their 88 days of farm work. The farmers losing this labour are being compensated by the proposed Agricultural Visa, which will give workers from ASEAN (not Pacific Island) countries a pathway to permanent residency. How will this affect the seasonal work programmes for Ni-Vanuatu workers?

BL: I think our official our official stance will be that the SWP and Pacific Labour Scheme programmes need to be modified. I think that we would prefer that we're able to guarantee a certain number of workers each year and open that up to negotiation. I think that will be the future for us. The other important component of that is getting the local trade unions involved in every step of the way, because that keeps that umbilical cord going while they depart the country. So I think that's going to be the future for us is to continue to modify the SWP and the PLS and strengthen that, so that the market is there for our workers, then the opportunities are there for our workers. As far as Australia's decision to, you know, to open it up, I won't say that I can comment much on that sort of policy level. But I will say from a personal point of view that I just think it's an opportunity for Vanuatu to look within the country for employment opportunities. I think if we focused on what Australia is opening up for others outside, we will miss the opportunities within Vanuatu to create agricultural opportunities, job opportunities for our own farmers. We already know that we can’t compete with workers that are going to come from the Asian region, just by the sheer numbers, I don't think we'll be able to compete there. So I would call for, look into our own opportunities in country with that announcement, and to strengthen that instead of worrying about what Australia and Asia are going to be doing.

GB: Great, thankyou so much for talking with me.

*Bislama is the national language of Vanuatu

**(Australian) Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, (New Zealand) Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade